Information from and about 303

**CharlesW** · 06-18-2003, 01:49 PM

The following is in response to my e-mail to 303 about it washing off in the rain.

Response starts here-> Charles, what you reference is what happens when the user DOESN"T FOLLOW DIRECTIONS. Product directions say to "spray on, wipe completely dry". Completely means COMPLETELY. (Though we`re talking about vinyl here, this applies to any surface to which this product will bond, vinyl certainly). Here`s what happens. Some spray 303 on a cloth and wipe it on and, seeing 303`s terrific cosmetics, leave it. Others use the same cloth in wiping a large area and end up not drying, but leaving the treated surface damp with 303. One cannot completely dry a treated area by finishing with a cloth damp with 303. At some point one has to turn the cloth over to a dry area to finish the drying or go to a second dry cloth to finish the drying. This is similar to cleaning your glasses, you can`t get the job done with a damp cloth, you have to turn it over to a dry area. By the way, 303 A. Protectant will NOT air dry.
These folks leave unabsorbed, un-bonded excess 303 polymer on the surface. This excess polymer after the water evaporates out retains a dampness. Though the treated surface may look great, it has little repellency and dust will stick to it. And when it rains this "washes off" and will streak surfaces below. Typically where 303 receives the most calls about this has to do with tonneau covers.

If the product is applied according to directions, sprayed on and wiped COMPLETELY dry, it leaves a super repellent finish (to dirt, dust, tree sap, bird droppings) and LASTS LONGER. It will NOT wash off onto other surfaces.
FYI, a little extra enthusiasm in the drying/buffing of the treated
surface with a DRY cloth causes the surface to become even more repellent and to last even longer. <- Response stops here.

There were a few links to tech information on their web-site that are worth reading as well. www.303products.com

Makes sense, (I think), so I will probably give it a try and see what happens.
Worst case would be having to replace all the furniture in a few years.

Boss_429 · 06-18-2003, 04:53 PM

With all due respect to the people at 303, I`ve followed their instructions pretty much to the letter, and haven`t come to the same conclusion. I notice that when the stuff "runs", the vinyl surface that it ran from, looks dull and unprotected. If their statement was correct, there still should be some product left on the surface................... but I don`t see, or feel that there is anything left.

However, I too will put a little extra "enthusiasm" into the buffing process, and see if the results change. It certainly won`t hurt to try, and I won`t mind be wrong!

**TheCompleteLook** · 06-19-2003, 12:29 AM

Charles,
Thanks for doing the footwork in the research process! It makes sense, I will try it as I am not an exterior 303 user.

**NattyBumppo** · 06-19-2003, 06:49 AM

wow, great info Charles. Is it me or did something raise that guys dander a bit

?

I understand what he`s saying but like Boss said, I do not wipe it on and leave it. I always buff it after letting it sit a few minutes. Maybe I also need to use bit more enthusiasm when drying/buffing. I`ll be sure to try it again.

As for not worrying about being wrong.......if I did worry about that I`d spend my life shaking like a leaf.

Natty

**biff** · 06-19-2003, 07:52 AM

My own door handles have always given me problems, I`ve used everything from the dreaded AA, to 303, to #40 to back to black and haven`t been satisfied with the durability of any of them.

So I tried 303 as directed this time. First I cleaned the handle with Simple Green (1:5 ratio). Then wiped 303 on and then buffed it off. Now I`m familiar with 303`s matte finish, but it looked like I had done nothing to it. Maybe I should have let it soak in for a while. So I wiped on some #40 and buffed it off right away, and it looks much better and still is not too shiny. I don`t expect it to last for more than a day though. :-(

I have experimented before with brushing 303 and #40 on with a toothbrush and just letting them soak in without buffing. THey seem to dry blotchy and don`t last.

These door handles are acting like sponges, they just can`t get enough dressing. Is there something else I should be using to clean them first? Is Simple Green 1:5 to strong?

Exterior vinyl is turning into a real weak spot in my detailing procedure.

**Tassadar** · 06-19-2003, 08:15 AM

Just in response to the simple green thing, I hate that stuff, its an absolutely horrible and weak cleaner. I can never get the results I want, even at full strength.

**biff** · 06-19-2003, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by Tassadar
Just in response to the simple green thing, I hate that stuff, its an absolutely horrible and weak cleaner. I can never get the results I want, even at full strength.

Tassadar, What do you prefer as an all purpose cleaner? I`m always open to suggestions.

**CharlesW** · 06-19-2003, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Tassadar
Just in response to the simple green thing, I hate that stuff, its an absolutely horrible and weak cleaner. I can never get the results I want, even at full strength.

Interesting. I thought it dulled the paint in the engine compartment when I used it 50/50 with water to clean an engine. Never tried it again. Gave it to my wife. Meguiar`s APC+ has been my cleaner for about a year or so. I just mix it 10:1 and use it on carpet and tires. Vinyl, I still use Fantastic if plain water won`t clean it. Woolite is going to be my next experiment for a vinyl, leather, upholstery cleaner.

**biff** · 06-19-2003, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by CharlesW
Interesting. I thought it dulled the paint in the engine compartment when I used it 50/50 with water to clean an engine. Never tried it again. Gave it to my wife. Meguiar`s APC+ has been my cleaner for about a year or so. I just mix it 10:1 and use it on carpet and tires. Vinyl, I still use Fantastic if plain water won`t clean it. Woolite is going to be my next experiment for a vinyl, leather, upholstery cleaner.

I noticed dulling too with Simple Green. The only reason I`m using it is economics and I did an informal test with Simple Green, Fantastik and Spray Nine where it came out on top;

I sprayed all three on glass and let it dry. Spray Nine had the worst residue, Fantastik was better and Simple Green (1:10) was the clearest. (Not very scientific but I want something that doesn`t leave anything behind)

Next I sprayed all three on different tires and let them sit. The simple green made the most dirt run off the tire with no scrubbing or rinsing. The other 2 didn`t do much.

I`d like to find some APC around here to at least try. I want to stick to something that I can dilute to whatever strengh I need.

**NattyBumppo** · 06-19-2003, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by Tassadar
Just in response to the simple green thing, I hate that stuff, its an absolutely horrible and weak cleaner.

Really

? I always thought SG was very strong stuff. I recall reading a post that stated the PH of Simple Green and it was off the scale in alkalinity.

About a year and half ago I actually witnessed 1:1 diluted Simple Green eat away at the vinyl covering of a dashpad. Some SG had settled in the crevice on top of a dash pad where the airbag is and sat in there for a minute or so. WHen I finally wiped it off using the edge of a towel the vinyl coating came off with it

.

That was the last time I used SG on a vehicle. Suppose I could dilute it more but that scared the beejeezus out of me.

Natty

**Koop** · 06-19-2003, 01:09 PM

If your looking for an apc i strongly suggest using 4stars white lightning. I was a big fan of megs apc+ but now i have a hard time finding ways to get rid of it.

**Ringo** · 06-19-2003, 02:46 PM

I`m with Koop. I tried the White Lightning and it`s good stuff. I had a 5 gallon drum of apc from 3D and when that was almost done I decided to try the 4 Star stuff and I like it.

Thanks Natty - I`ve always wondered how to spell beejeezus.

**Tassadar** · 06-19-2003, 05:24 PM

I use SG full strength on my engine bay, the door moldings and jambs, and anywhere else I dont feel like damaging my wash mitt. It may be powerful, I have just never been impressed.

Meguiars APC is amazing stuff from what I have read, as is Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity (They also make a citrus degreaser just for engine bays, Eimann Fabrik that is).

**Thomasfl** · 06-19-2003, 07:39 PM

stay away from simple green just not good for cars. For those door handles why don`t you try a sealant, like AIO, or even platinum. I sometimes use AIO on slightly ozidized trim, works good. I have been using the EF High Intensity and it works great, can`t see myself switching. If I find something that works I stick with it rather than checking out new products everytime.

**Koop** · 06-19-2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Tassadar
I use SG full strength on my engine bay, the door moldings and jambs, and anywhere else I dont feel like damaging my wash mitt. It may be powerful, I have just never been impressed.

Meguiars APC is amazing stuff from what I have read, as is Eimann Fabrik Hi-Intensity (They also make a citrus degreaser just for engine bays, Eimann Fabrik that is).

Funny you should say that because megs also makes a citus degreaser just for engine bays too! It`s in there detailor line. I find it works better on caprets and mud than engine grease though. All the citrus based degreasers are WAY too weak for petrol type probs. They work great on greases that are more common in nature like the kinds you find in clay and such. I`m still using a true degreaser for my under the hood work along with a qd for the paint.