Does carnauba wax work better on black than UPP or NXT?

[Kai]

I`ve been using both UPP and NXT on our black Benz S430, but I always seem to have some haze spot once awhile and usually the most noticeable on the hood b/c of the angle.

Every time after the car gets dirty enough and needs a good thorough wash, I would follow all the steps doing claying, UPP paint cleaner, polishing, sealant. Then if I want I would top it off with some carnauba wax(TS or PS or my own mix of the two ). You know the very typical procedures to get that best shine possible. And I`ve always apply the sealants w/ PC7424. Sometimes I do apply some Final Detail spray inbtwn.

These steps have proven to work my cars and I like the result. But sometime it just seems to be a bit PIA to get the haze out on our straight black Benz. I could notice some hazing issue on our Ti Grey Volvo, but not that noticeable b/c of the color. Black is just a royla PIA, shows everything so well.. And all these problems happen even before applying that one layer of topper wax.

At first I thought maybe I just shouldn`t mix UPP and NXT together, then I tried to use them by themselves w/o any other type of sealant or wax. I still had the problem.

Then I thought maybe it was just dirty MF towels or pads, but I never wash pads or MF towels that I use with carnauba wax. And I did change to new MF towels, still have the problem.

Finally today I decided to apply my own TS+PS wax and pay closer attention to the finish. AND I SURE DIDN`T HAVE ANY OF THE HAZING PROBLEM ANYMORE! At least not that I could see even at very close inspection. The wax just wiped off so easily w/o any haze.

Maybe b/c these past few weeks I wanted to just have polymer based sealant for that more durable finish without carnauba wax to attract dust. And back then I just knew wanted to top if off w/ some carnauba wax and didn`t pay close attention.

Any thought on this? What am I doing wrong? TIA~!

[TheSopranos16]

What kind of pad are you using with the PC? It could be that you are using too agressive of a pad to apply the sealents or possibly the paint cleaners. I would say that the hazing is in the paint, and the carnauba makes it look better because it fills it in temporarily. Some SSR1, Menzerna FP any other mild abrasive polish with a PC and a polishing pad should remove any hazing that you might have.

As far as carnauba vs sealant, I do find there is a difference, but only a small one. Basically, carnauba darkens the finish so it makes blacks and reds look better. But its not a huge difference when compared to the quality sealants. The sealants last much much longer. I would say that the difference in durability is greater than the differance in looks, so for the most part, a sealant is a better choice. My car is black so I typically use a carnauba topper in the summer, but stick to just sealants in the winter.

[Kai]

Originally posted by TheSopranos16
What kind of pad are you using with the PC? I would say that the hazing is in the paint, and the carnauba makes it look better because it fills it in temporarily. Some SSR1, Menzerna FP any other mild abrasive polish with a PC and a polishing pad should remove any hazing that you might have.
My car is black so I typically use a carnauba topper in the summer, but stick to just sealants in the winter.

I`m using the black finishing pads when applying the sealant or wax. I was wondering maybe I just didn`t clean the surface well enough even after the claying, upp paint cleanser, and polishing..

Yeah, I only use wax topper in the summer or the other car that we don`t drive as often.

[Jngrbrdman]

I think there is a big difference between carnaubas and synthetics. Carnaubas pretty much look the same. They look deep and wet. Synthetics add a gloss and reflection that I`ve never seen out of carnauba. Because they are molecularly different, they throw back reflections a lot differently. I`ve never seen a wax that can compete in the gloss catagory when compared to Klasse SG. I`ve also never seen a carnauba transform a vehicle optically like Wolfgang. However, I`ve never seen a synthetic make red look as wet as Souveran makes it look. There are postitives and negatives to both of them. I like to use them both. It is true that sealants are more durable, but they also have many different visual qualities that seperate them from carnaubas. I may not be able to tell the difference in photographs (I doubt many people can) but I can sure tell the difference in person.

[Kai]

Originally posted by Jngrbrdman
I think there is a big difference between carnaubas and synthetics. I may not be able to tell the difference in photographs (I doubt many people can) but I can sure tell the difference in person.

Yup yup~! It`s really hard to explain to people sometimes, they would really have to see the car in person to tell. So far the wettest synthetic sealant I`ve seen is UPP, and the thickest acrylic look is NXT. Zaino and Klasse are about the same in my book.

Here are some photos...again the pictures don`t do justice; espeically with my crappy photography skill.

[bigron62]

ive gone both ways on black and i prefer carnuba on black .. it has a deeper look to it and it doesnt highlight the imperfections as much .. sealers look killer on bright colors ... ive used sealer on black and the customers love it but but its too bright if you know what i mean .. i use clay then polish and carnuba ... ive tried about 20 combos on black and im sticking with this ..also i apply everything with a p.c.

[CharlesW]

Originally posted by Kai
And I`ve always apply the sealants w/ PC7424. Sometimes I do apply some Final Detail spray inbtwn.

Fact: Final Detail is one of Meguiar`s Not Body Shop Safe products.
Speculation: Could the FD be causing the sealants to not attach them selves to the paint and thus leave a streaky or smeared appearance?

Charles :dunno

[karll]

optically, the difference is there, but minimal (sealant vs carnuba). For me the usual argument is true....carnuba on dark, poly/sealant on brighter lighter colors. More importantly However, as sealant does last much longer, it goes on vehicle`s i wont see for 6 months and carnuba goes on my cars which i do so often anyways that Durability doesnt mean a damn thing. I dont care that carnuba doesnt last too many washes, as my personal vehicles get a quick wax after every wash.

carnuba`s sometimes dont attach so evenly sometimes dependant on veh`s temp etc. some people will pull it out into the sun for 30 mins and then rewipe with MF. some will use a damp towel/chamois to do same.

I noticed hazing on a complete section of one my BLACK vehicles. It was this section that was a repaint. the clear must of been softer or something. BUT, after carnuba and about 6 hours, i noticed it in the bright sun. this section was not black but a dull grey. the carnuba didnt attach as it was spotty and really brought out this condition. i simply re-polished....(3M SMR dark cars/polishing pad) and corrected the problem.

SO, i think the problem is in the POLISHING stage. IMHO.

[Kai]

Originally posted by CharlesW
Fact: Final Detail is one of Meguiar`s Not Body Shop Safe products.
Speculation: Could the FD be causing the sealants to not attach them selves to the paint and thus leave a streaky or smeared appearance?

Charles :dunno

Yeah..probably not, because those times I did not use any FD in the mix even after wiping off the sealant. I actually used it those times when I got haze problem.

[Kai]

Originally posted by karll
\I noticed hazing on a complete section of one my BLACK vehicles. It was this section that was a repaint. the clear must of been softer or something. i simply re-polished....(3M SMR dark cars/polishing pad) and corrected the problem.

SO, i think the problem is in the POLISHING stage. IMHO.

Thanks~~! I think you are right on the money. That hood was worked on a bit to take out some paint chips, thus the shop did take out a bit of the clear during the process. I`ll definitely try to use the intensive polish followed by some final polish.