High Power Cleaners

[filipzin]

Originally posted by CharlesW

How is the ph level of the cleaning solution affected by the dilution ratio?
In other words, if the 1:1 ph is 13.5, what would the 10:1 ph be?

Charles

Charles, from the first thread, i think your mixture of 10:1 APC+ has a 12.5ph lvl :bigscream. For every tenth multiple, the ph lvl reduces by one. Its been such a long time since i`ve taken chemistry but i`m not quite sure of its validity (theoretically can dilute below 7?) I`ll report back if i can find anything.

[CharlesW]

Originally posted by filipzin
Charles, from the first thread, i think your mixture of 10:1 APC+ has a 12.5ph lvl :bigscream. For every tenth multiple, the ph lvl reduces by one. Its been such a long time since i`ve taken chemistry but i`m not quite sure of its validity (theoretically can dilute below 7?) I`ll report back if i can find anything.

Unfortunately, I came up with the same thinking. I just didn`t want to accept it.
The APC+ that I have grown to rely on so much may be slowly destroying many of the things I have been trying to take care of.

Charles

[rhillstr]

Filipzin- Very good grasshopper! You are correct. You cannot dilute a base (pH above 7) to become an acid. To achieve a pH of 7 you would have to dilute the solution more than 10,000:1. In other words water is neutral until you put that stuff in it!
Charles W- that brings me to my point. APC and Eimann clean largely by using high pH`s. To clean pH sensitive things such as vinyl, carpet, and painted surfaces use the right tool for the job- pH balanced carpet cleaner. They rely on surfactants, detergents, emulsifiers, and enzymes to clean. Using something like APC+ (despite it`s devious name!) to clean them would be like using a daisy cutter to mow your lawn. Sure the grass is cut now but the neighborhood is gone!

[Ferrarislave]

APC+ cant be that caustic it barly cleans brake dust of my wheels without scrubbing. Its great for carpets and wheel wells tires etc. Simple green isnt very powerfull either.

[rhillstr]

If the pH of APC+ is in fact 13.5 then yes, it most definately is caustic. Ability to remove brake dust is not directly proportional to caustic properties. Case in point- Spray & Wipe removes brake dust from my wheel just fine but it`s not caustic at all.

[Dalton]

So would the conclusion be that the PH level doesnt neccessarily have anything to do wioth the cleaning ability but everything to do with potential long term damage?

[Ferrarislave]

Long term damage like to colors and such after using lots of times over the yrs. ? I honestly dont think it can do anything to alumnium clear coated or chrome rims. To carpets I dilute it 12:1 and only do it about 2x a year.

SG i only use in wheel wells and tires and other exterior cleaning jobs.

[rhillstr]

Well again they are separate entities Dalton. Some things are cleaned by pH action like grease and others are indifferent to pH. Also high pH increases solubility of certain stains/soil making them easier to remove while it may decrease the solubility of others making them less likely to come out. Typically wheel grime responds to acid based cleaners better but they etch metal.
Frozen- High pH cleaners can leave a white milky hazy coat on bare metal wheels, but I can be polished out with metal polish. Carpets are typically polymers that can by hydrolyzed over time by cleaners with strong pH (acid or basic). The carpet will become coarse and the fibers brittle over time. I`ve never tested the ability of cleaners to remove dye but a strong pH may chemically alter some dye molecules (never tested this either) and thus the color may change. A great analogy is when someone gets chlorine (pool or spa) in their hair which was bleached and it turns a shade of green.

[JimS]

I`m pretty confused about what to use on what here.

So, it seems to me that since I`m confused and since I know nuttin about chemistry and since I`m too old, tired and indifferent to learn, my best course of action would be to buy products that give cleaning instructions and recommendations on the lable. If brake cleaner spray is not to be used on carpets it will probably say so on the lable and I can sue if it`s not mentioned

In the future I`ll probably not be using apc`s or anything else without reading the label pretty carefully and I probably won`t experiment with stuff....like maybe using CLR on leather seats.

[rhillstr]

Jim I`d say that`s pretty sound advice. I think of APC`s as Swiss Army knives or Leatherman multitools. They can do everything but they`re lousy at all of them. With so many car care products out there it`s hard to separate fact from hype. I suppose that`s largely part of why we`re all here, to experiment and learn from each other`s experience.

[CharlesW]

Since I received some info from Meguiar`s pertaining to APC+, I thought I would start a new thread.
The title will be Meg`s APC+.
Big surprise, right?

Charles